Downloading of garmin 3+ track

[wightman]

Hey guys! I got bust doing 118 between Eucla and Mindribulla, just inside WA, by cops in an oncoming car. I had my old steam driven Garmin 3+ on since leaving the quarantine post. Do any of you techno geeks have a download cable and/or know if the track retains a full set of attributes for the entire track, ie speed and time for the whole distance? I'm sure I was doing less than 110.

Ta velly muchly and may you all have a wonderful, productive and enjoyable 2010 on your beemer/s

John

[bwanainoz]

I dont have a download cable for the III+ at home but might be able to obtain one on Monday or Tuesday if it is not in Kalgoorlie. If you had the track logging turned on, when the track is downloaded to Mapsource it should show position, time and speed. Do you have Mapsource to download to?

[bully1]

I have a couple of Garmin download cables not sure if they'll fit but welcome to try one. I can drop one down on Sunday then off for a dirt ride to York.

[wightman]

Thanks guys; no I don't have Mapsource, just the original maps of U.S. Europe and some parts of Africa. I have the breadcrumb trail saved on the unit.

There is only one, four pin socket at the back of the unit, to which the power cable connects.

I will swing by Catalano's 2moro, unfortunately back to China on Monday but will bring my GPS too if some clever guy can download and print out what I was doing..........

Exhibit A, your honour (of course, maybe a copper's radar reading, legally may take preference over GPS?????)

John

[Bry]

"Exhibit A, your honour (of course, maybe a copper's radar reading, legally may take preference over GPS?????)"

Hmmm, a printout of a device that generates an average between sampling (no matter how small that is) with a topographical error not taken into account and without a certificate of valid calibration since time of initial production.

vs

A goverment gazetted device calibrated every 6 months and tested daily (if operating procedures followed correctly), and I'm assuming it was RADAR which means it also would have had the ground speed calibrated with the vehicle it was mounted it, so it's accuracy was correct. Which generates a instant reading. And a user who had to pass training.

You'd be better off trying to introduce doubt with regards to distance obtained, other traffic in area, if it was RADAR then large signs and so forth can generate reflections which can mask the primary reflected signal. On the whole, because of GPS's sampled and calculated road speed, it's not an instantaneous reading.

If the ticket was for 118/110 it's a $75 no points, and it also means the speed read at was 120kph as you've gotta drop 2.... so you were >.< close to getting a $150 and 2 points....


Good luck.

[geoffcnc]

So, you were under the limit the whole way?

My sister taught me a good thing.......average the number of times you actually break the law with speed, vs. the number of times you get caught. $50 is not such a bad price to pay for the privelege of getting away with it most of the time.

....and Bry, these radars and lasers are known to have faults and calibration issues, and user errors. Admit it I always wonder too......If they measured me at 120, and booked me at 118, isn't that falsifying records?

Just stirring
Geoff (hasn't been busted for a looooooooong time)

[Bry]

Put it this way, with the number of samples obtained during any shift patrol time, if we get readings that don't match correctly we (or I) will not infringe, if the ground speed (ie patrol car) is correct there's no other traffic, reflections are minimal then he might get a ticket. Keep in mind that RADAR can be activated for a moment or in continuous mode, and if it was the latter they may have chosen to lock in and acted at that time. Out there, the RADAR range can be up to 2K's....

Calibration errors are possible, but 3 years of traffic and I've yet to have an issue, most of the time it's LASER work which your initial observation will be that, "Hmmm, he's going faster than the surrounding traffic" and consequently in court it becomes a two edged sword, 1) that I observed the speed, 2) the LASER/RADAR backs up the observation.

The 2kph variation is more to allow for error in tyre wear/vehicle reading, and whilst we're not as draconian as say Victoria, if you beleive your speedo is out and state that, then you might get a work order instead. But if you're 20-30K's over even a judge is going to observe that you should be aware. If it comes to a situation that you are 2k's over the offence range, ie higher penalty, when you get to court, prosecution may approach you and give that discrepency and let you have the lower reading, lowers your points and cost, and you don't obtain the court costs. The end of the day, you were speeding...

And don't start with me about ADR's I've read all the stuff too, at the end of the day if you want to fight that, you have to be able to do the maths of cost.

Falsifying records? no. You are shown the speed, you are then told then speed is reduced as per guidelines, if I showed you 90 and infringed you for 110, well yes, that would fall into what you are saying.

The speed comment is good, a lot of the time we travel faster than you should and you're not caught, you run the gambit.

Taking the line of "my GPS says this", isn't enough, introducing doubt is your best defence. Also if he got done out there, I think the next courthouse is Kalgoorlie for that, so he'll be traipsing out there to fight the ticket, is it worth that?,he got slapped on the wrist.

*I'm no angel, time and place boys.

[bully1]

I look at the amounts of times that i have been WELL over the speed limit (as in give me your keys you hoon) and think that when I have been caught (been awhile) it probabley works out about 41 each time.

[wightman]

All of the GPS units I have used have been devastatingly accurate, ie accurate to +/- 2m in the x and y planes and maybe 5m in the z plane. I don't think anybody would even think of issuing calibration certificates for them. Their signals of time, that they receive from the satellites are accurate to the leap second. The stretch of road I was travelling was flat as a chessboard (save for the drop down at Eucla and the rise up at Madura?????) Oh, and unfortunately no other traffic around to blame for background effects.

And my speedo is synchronised with and almost as responsive as my GPS.

J

[Bry]

Yes but like the police you need proof that what you used is accurate. The judge is not going to think, "o you have a Garmin", you need to be able to prove its accuracy in court.

Keeping in mind, it's not a recognised speed detection device, hence not valid in the courts eyes. At the end of the day you've two officers and a reading (which is real time ie bounced off you to them), and in your words, no obstructions, or other vehicles and your observation which cannot be backed up. A downloaded time stamped log is not sufficent, that can be manipulated, if you can introduce sufficent doubt of some other form, you might have a case, or you are particulary charismatic in court.

All the best

[bmwlefty]

Hey Bry,
You mentioned 'testing' the radar units. Do they also 'test' the multanova units?
On Sunday I was driving the Camry on Roe Highway, in the 100kph zone, with the speedo indicating 91 to 92kph (we have had the speedo dyno-checked, it reads 2 to 3 kph slow) so I would have been travelling at 93 to 96kph. I saw a Multanova unit up ahead, and said to Lina "Ha-ha, the bugger's not going to get me!" Just then, the unit flashed !
If I am sent an infringement, there will certainly be some questions asked about falsfying documents!

[Bry]

Whilst it may be hard to believe, protocols are units are tested before and after shifts. I'm not in the camera section, but I'm informed the same principals apply.

Calibrations are done at regular intervals and the units must be at specific angles in relation to the road to minimize error on reading. They generally trigger 8kph over. If the guy was by the unit, it's a good chance of a test firing, or you had another vehicle by you travelling faster near you.

If the latters occured and your photo shows a second vehicle, I'd suggest querying the section. Keep in mind RADAR can trigger on oncoming and leaving traffic, so it may not have been you.

I wasn't there, my comments are nothing more than a guide..

[bmwlefty]

Thanks Bry,
The guy was standing by the unit, so it probably was a test
Cheers

[_Wilks]

Lefty

I've had the 'test firing' happen to me a couple of times. Never rec'd a ticket so you should be right.